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VainZiler
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:58 pm
Post subject: Does it belond? (music debates) |
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Debate 1: So, this is a topic that I have had in my head for awhile now, but just got around to putting into full words. Does the piano really have a place in the world of rock and metal? These genres normally pictured with guitars and drums, does something like the piano really have a comfertable place?
Debate 2: Posting this within the same topic, simply because it follows along the same line. Is it often that good to cross genres of music? Seeing things like metal and opra, an even rap with classical, are these cross genres really a good thing?
My view 1: Honestly, I got mixed feelings about it. Don't get me wrong, the paino is a wonderful intsrument, but there is jsut some songs where it don't belong. I can't remember the name of the example I was going to give, but it was like a speed metal song with a guy using an old grand paino as well. It just really seemed wrong to me. Though, there are a lot of times when a piano can be good for the genre's. Linkin Park for example do a good job of blending it in with various songs of theirs.
My view 2: Crossing genres is a good thing in my view. It does allow for a wider variety of music to listen too, while giving each cross over a unique mix of sound and harmany.
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| Amphibious wrote: | | As the great VainZiller said so long ago... |
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-SubZero-
I EATCHOO
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Does it belond? (music debates) |
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| VainZiler wrote: | Debate 1: So, this is a topic that I have had in my head for awhile now, but just got around to putting into full words. Does the piano really have a place in the world of rock and metal? These genres normally pictured with guitars and drums, does something like the piano really have a comfortable place?
Debate 2: Posting this within the same topic, simply because it follows along the same line. Is it often that good to cross genres of music? Seeing things like metal and opera, an even rap with classical, are these cross genres really a good thing?
My view 1: Honestly, I got mixed feelings about it. Don't get me wrong, the piano is a wonderful instrument, but there is jsut some songs where it don't belong. I can't remember the name of the example I was going to give, but it was like a speed metal song with a guy using an old grand piano as well. It just really seemed wrong to me. Though, there are a lot of times when a piano can be good for the genre's. Linkin Park for example do a good job of blending it in with various songs of theirs.
My view 2: Crossing genres is a good thing in my view. It does allow for a wider variety of music to listen too, while giving each cross over a unique mix of sound and harmony. |
Debate 1: Rock is a HUGE main genre. it is unfair to question the place of any instrument, let alone the piano, in rock. Here are some examples:
1) Any acoustic song. You can take Godsmack's album The Other Side, or Eric Clapton's Unplugged as places where a piano would fit.
2) Anything in the Blues sub-genre.
3) Opera Rock (Meatloaf)
4) Gothic Metal, Black Metal (not a fan of BM), etc.
5) Dragon Force.
Now, if you wanted to say that piano has no place in Thrash Metal, then I would completely agree with you. It all depends on the mood and message that the artist is trying to portray.
The other question is, which type of piano do you mean? Classic or synthesized?
Debate 2: Crossing genre's isn't always a bad thing. It's the motives of doing so that may make it bad. Personally, I hate it when rap and pop stars take great songs and ruin them. It's not the mixing that ruins them, but the fact that the only reason they're using the song is to make money. It takes the emotion and the meaning away from the song.
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VainZiler
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Does it belond? (music debates) |
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| -SubZero- wrote: |
Debate 1: Rock is a HUGE main genre. it is unfair to question the place of any instrument, let alone the piano, in rock. Here are some examples:
1) Any acoustic song. You can take Godsmack's album The Other Side, or Eric Clapton's Unplugged as places where a piano would fit.
2) Anything in the Blues sub-genre.
3) Opera Rock (Meatloaf)
4) Gothic Metal, Black Metal (not a fan of BM), etc.
5) Dragon Force. |
All good points. I tend to forget there are a lot more sub-genre then I realize. Though refresh my mind on what Dragon Force is, if it's not too much trouble.
| -SubZero- wrote: |
Now, if you wanted to say that piano has no place in Thrash Metal, then I would completely agree with you. It all depends on the mood and message that the artist is trying to portray. |
I supose you're right, the mood and message are the determaning factor for a lot of the things when it comes to the music itself, though sometimes the paino just doesn't seem right with some songs.
| -SubZero- wrote: |
The other question is, which type of piano do you mean? Classic or synthesized? |
Classic mostly.
| -SubZero- wrote: |
Debate 2: Crossing genre's isn't always a bad thing. It's the motives of doing so that may make it bad. Personally, I hate it when rap and pop stars take great songs and ruin them. It's not the mixing that ruins them, but the fact that the only reason they're using the song is to make money. It takes the emotion and the meaning away from the song. |
Agreed. Like when a lot of people did their own remixes for the Nightmare Before Christmas, Mansons 'This is Halloween' was just plain horrible.
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| Amphibious wrote: | | As the great VainZiller said so long ago... |
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onretilom
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:20 am
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I believe for debate 1, it depends. Like, I could never picture slayer using keyboards really, but for some metal songs, it works. I think that the piano can add a bit more epicness to songs, that's why i like classical because the epicness it has from the piano (and also because of the fact that there are so many musicians playing as well). Also I think keyboards adds a bit more harmonies too. For debate 2, genre-crossing is without a great thing. Imo, you wouldn't have much musical progression if you don't cross genres because, in some way or another, you're going to take something from another genre and sort of vary in some form to make it a genre of its own. But anyway, you also wouldn't have some of the great stuff nowadays, such as thrash metal, jazz-fusion, funk, etc. Very interesting that you make a topic like this Vain.
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psyco
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:30 am
Post subject: Re: Does it belond? (music debates) |
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i agree with both of you,
piano's or full orchestras *can* sound good in the "metal" world - apocaliptika(SP) for example, while it is vocal-less they still sound great.
crossing genres are the basis of new genre's forming, so this is a no brainer it can *only* be good even if the actual track is shit, as it can inspire others.
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VainZiler
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:57 am
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Some great views we got here.
You see the main reason I made this topic, stems from a discussion I had with two of my best freinds. My freind Bardok only listens to violent rap and thrash metal (and oddly enough, the occasional anime theme song) where as my freinds, Izumi mostly just listens to techno, trance, metal, rock, and J-rock. (Also loves anime theme songs). Finally, I myself mainly listen to the same things as Izumi, though I will listen to anything that's not rap nor country.
Now, I asked their views on the subject, and it was interesting to see that Bardok loved the addition of painos, and loved the crossing of rap and rock, while Izumi didn't care for the addition of the piano, and really didn't like crossing genre's to much.
So i basically wanted to see how everyone else viewed these topics.
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| Amphibious wrote: | | As the great VainZiller said so long ago... |
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psyco
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:19 am
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sorry to be sinicle(SP?) here, but you seem to be apologising, theres no need this is a forum after all...
but regarding your whole musical taste thing/subject, my personal opinions are everything 1900-1950 is crap, dance/trance music is also terrible except a few, and most popular music in the last 20 years or so is also crap. bleek view i know, but its far easier to say what i don't like.
i much prefer unsigned or not well known material, it feels like alot more natural and they seem to have a greater desire to make music. and more emotional too.
but generally i like interesting, ever evolving, musical rhythms beets and sounds, none of that short sample type music repeated for 3 minutes while a person sings.
it may come as a surprise but my favourite type of music is a metal infused with medieval/gothic sounds, hard to find, but its truly unique. like this.
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Jay
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:16 pm
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1) If you want to go for a certain, specific sound and mood, then certain instruments would be required and others nixed. But to answer the question, piano can go into any genre.
2) Cross-genres shouldn't be immiediately dismissed because most of it requires an acquired taste. No one has any right to say what's music or what's not.
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