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Malaris
TMK Temple Monk
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
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DreemerNJ
TMK Temple Monk
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:34 am
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| Noob Saibot5 wrote: | | Excuse me, but Sheeva kicked ass in MK3. Her combo had 8 hits or something, she had a good fireball and her teleport attack was damn powerful. And the worst in MK3 was Stryker and Kabal not Sheeva and Shang |
Kabal is the most powerful character in UMK3. Jax and Sub Zero were both extremely powerful in MK3 also, but Kabal was still one of the top ones (and unfortunately in UMK3 they killed Sub Zero, knocking him down close to the bottom of the barrel). Overall Kabal is a deadly force in MK.
Sheeva, however, never kicked ass. Again, it gets back to what I said before about Reptile in MK2, if you are beating people with these characters, these people are bad at the game.
Stryker is damn good as well, definately a powerhouse. He is often tagged as not a good character because he looks dorky and his story sucks. But, if the game is actually played, its usually realized that he is very deadly.
Sheeva is one of the worst because she can do less damage then most of the other characters and she is a much easier target to hit. SHe is big and the way her hitboxes are designed means many infinites work more easily on her (or in some cases only on her). Her teleport stomp is terrible because simply walking back will avoid it. Her fireball has a nice fast start up which is good but she holds it for so long it ends up being a major opening for attack. Her autocombo was powerful compared to many, but that doesn't amount to much in real gameplay.
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DreemerNJ
TMK Temple Monk
Joined: 11 Feb 2004
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:37 am
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Scrubs play for fun, not to win. Makes sense. And it is a good argument for labeling some characters as bad and others as good. For instance if two players of equally high skill play MK2 and one uses Jax or Mileena and the other uses Reptile, the Reptile player will lose. You don't go into real competative play using a character that is crippled compared to other characters. Many people don't like to believe this, because they like to think they can learn something new and cool about a character or just get lucky, but that usually leads to scrubdom.
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Noob Saibot5
The Edenian Rain
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:06 pm
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| DreemerNJ wrote: | | Scrubs play for fun, not to win. Makes sense. And it is a good argument for labeling some characters as bad and others as good. For instance if two players of equally high skill play MK2 and one uses Jax or Mileena and the other uses Reptile, the Reptile player will lose. You don't go into real competative play using a character that is crippled compared to other characters. Many people don't like to believe this, because they like to think they can learn something new and cool about a character or just get lucky, but that usually leads to scrubdom. |
Not true at all! My cousin was a MASTER in MK2 as Kitana, Mileena and Sub-Zero, and I was a master with Reptile, Baraka and Scorpion. He could beat Kintaro on Hard mode with a flawless victory THATS how good he was! But I could kick his ass as any of the fighters I was good at. No character can be defined as weak, each has certain advantages against their opponents and its up to the player to utilise those advantages. Not only could Reptile be invisable (and therefore harder to hit), he had a fast projectile (acid) and a slow projectile (force ball), plus a low attack that could link into a combo if timed correctly. So how does that make him weak? If you think a fighter is weak, then you make them weak.
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DreemerNJ
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:31 am
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Some characters can be defined as weak. It's that simple. Characters like Shang, Sheeva, and Sub are very weak in UMK3. The ninjas in general, Raiden, and particularly Reptile are weak in MK2, it's just how it is. Thats why some characters win tournies all the time and some never do. Because there are characters that, no matter how much you practice with them, they aren't going to win a tourny level match. You can think about it in absolutes. Sheeva vs Kabal in UMK3 or Sheeva vs Noob Saibot in MKT. If sheeva wins repeatedly against Kabal or Noob or Human Smoke or Rain or any of the other top tier characters, then whoever is playing as those losing characters is not good at the game.
If your friend can be repeatedly beaten with any character no matter what character he picks, chances are he is not very good at the game.
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zero
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:21 pm
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I think Baraka would win. He is alot cooler but i also like Reptile.
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Lin kuei_Warrior
TMK Kid Thunder
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:32 pm
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They both are very skilled fighters
hard to tell actually...
the tarkatan is known as a very ruthless and careless race
while reptile on the other hand is stealthy and fast...
the outcome according to me will be  :
reptile losing an arm and a leg due to baraka's blades
and baraka's body all smashy by reptile's acid spit
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shotokanpuma#1
TMK Kid Thunder
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:46 pm
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i think that reptile used to be smarter than baraka, hence trhe reason why he outranked him. recently however, (only in mkda, soon to be changed in mk7) he has become pretty stupid this would make the fight much more savage/brutal but reptile has something about him that would cause him to win.
besides, baraka would dribble too much
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wolverine2004
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:49 am
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Replite own baraka's ass
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MKG_Rain
TMK Temple Monk
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:45 pm
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[quote="DreemerNJ"] Thats why some characters win tournies all the time and some never do. Because there are characters that, no matter how much you practice with them, they aren't going to win a tourny level match. You can think about it in absolutes. quote]
hmm reminds of playing paintball forums....the arguement between the tippmanns and the Dm5's. ok lemme tell you about this "analogy".
let tippmann represent mk2 reptile and dm5 equal jax/ mileena. Tippmann not being the best choice for "speedball" (fast paced game where inflaltable bunkers are used) can still go toe to toe with a dm5. With enough expireince(sp?) and the right amount ups on the tippmann (or in reptiles case your abilities as the character which cant be up'd but can be intelligiently used) will be able to stand u p to the dm5 without problems. Sure the tippmann isnt the best choice but that doesnt matter.
Its not the gun that makes the player but the player makes the gun.
now lets apply that to MK. "Its not the character that makes the player, but the player that makes the character."
nuff said...
-THE END-
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DreemerNJ
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Joined: 11 Feb 2004
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:07 am
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[quote="MKG_Rain"] | DreemerNJ wrote: | Thats why some characters win tournies all the time and some never do. Because there are characters that, no matter how much you practice with them, they aren't going to win a tourny level match. You can think about it in absolutes. quote]
hmm reminds of playing paintball forums....the arguement between the tippmanns and the Dm5's. ok lemme tell you about this "analogy".
let tippmann represent mk2 reptile and dm5 equal jax/ mileena. Tippmann not being the best choice for "speedball" (fast paced game where inflaltable bunkers are used) can still go toe to toe with a dm5. With enough expireince(sp?) and the right amount ups on the tippmann (or in reptiles case your abilities as the character which cant be up'd but can be intelligiently used) will be able to stand u p to the dm5 without problems. Sure the tippmann isnt the best choice but that doesnt matter.
Its not the gun that makes the player but the player makes the gun.
now lets apply that to MK. "Its not the character that makes the player, but the player that makes the character."
nuff said...
-THE END- |
Almost works. Except I think you are underestimating how different the bad characters are from the good ones. This isn't an idealogical argument about how the characters are best utilized. You'd find that sort of thing with GGXX where the characters are all much closer in ability. You can still argue about the existance of tiers in games like that but the difference between the tiers is not all that enormous. Same with VF4 and VF4e. Some characters may be harder to use then others, but pretty much all characters can be used to win a tournament.
In games like the MK series however, there is much greater tier stratification. Some characters are simply far worse then others. In casual games, chances are you can pick anybody and enjoy it. But if you are playing people that are actually legitimately good at the game, some characters are so underpowered that they simply do not stand a chance.
You can believe that any character, with enough practice, could be used to win against very good players, I encourage you to think so. But, it does mean you will probably lose most if not all of those matches. Because, again, I am not talking average MK player versus his buddies. A lot of people play their friends a bunch of times, win a bunch of times, and think they know about what character is really good. I am talking about good players vs good players.
And I will also say again what I usually say. If you are using a low tier character (e.g. Reptile) and you beat someone that is using a high tier character (e.g. Jax), that person sucks at the game. Or, at the very least, that person is no where near as good as you are.
Think servbot, dan, and hayato versus Mag/Sent/CapCom in MvC2. One of those teams will not be winning tournaments.
Ok, I think thats about it. So this should probably be -THE END- unless you have some more analogies that don't apply, or perhaps an amusing story about beating someone using a low tier character followed by the obligatory "and theyre really good at the game!!1!!111!!!!!!one!!11!"
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MKG_Rain
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:11 am
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ok first off my analogies do apply. 
second i know there are characters that have advantages and ill accept that fact but what i wont accept is your concept of top tier characters constantly winning and if loosing then they are in the hands of bad players. Im sorry but to me that sounds like ignorance
nice try...but not nice enough.
-THE END-
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DreemerNJ
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:00 am
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| MKG_Rain wrote: | ok first off my analogies do apply.
second i know there are characters that have advantages and ill accept that fact but what i wont accept is your concept of top tier characters constantly winning and if loosing then they are in the hands of bad players. Im sorry but to me that sounds like ignorance
nice try...but not nice enough.
-THE END- |
Its not that the top tier never lose, but top tier versus bottom tier, chances are extremely good that top tier will win so long as the players are evenly good.
1. Its not my concept. Its what has grown out of tournaments involving good players.
2. Ignorance is making bold statements when you obviously don't have a ton of experience with the game.
3. Your acceptance doesn't really matter. It doesn't sound like you play very competatively anyway, so this is more rhetorical for you than anything else.
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Noob Saibot5
The Edenian Rain
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:36 pm
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Tiers dont count at all, y do you insist they do? Kintaro is a high "Tier" fighter in that game but any character can beat him (and dont give me the excuse that the difficulty is low or that Kintaro isnt good because he is the hardest challenge in the game). If you were to play as Repile (who's tier was 5 in Deadly Alliance) against me with Baraka (who's tier was 3 in Deception) I'd have an even chance of kicking your ass, even if the only fighter you ever used was Reptile. It all depends on how you use your fighter. Tiers do not count, Onaga and Shao Khan are high tiers but they can still be beaten by any fighter.
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MKG_Rain
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:28 am
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| Noob Saibot5 wrote: | | Tiers dont count at all, y do you insist they do? Kintaro is a high "Tier" fighter in that game but any character can beat him (and dont give me the excuse that the difficulty is low or that Kintaro isnt good because he is the hardest challenge in the game). If you were to play as Repile (who's tier was 5 in Deadly Alliance) against me with Baraka (who's tier was 3 in Deception) I'd have an even chance of kicking your ass, even if the only fighter you ever used was Reptile. It all depends on how you use your fighter. Tiers do not count, Onaga and Shao Khan are high tiers but they can still be beaten by any fighter. |
my god the man speaks the truth.
hmm 9 yrs on/off give or take.....not a whole lotta expirience.
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