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| Did you get what you wanted from Deception? |
| Yes |
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72% |
[ 13 ] |
| No - too short |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| No - not enough characters |
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5% |
[ 1 ] |
| No - not enough good characters |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
| No - Finishing moves sucked |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| No - all of the above |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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Whyte_Lotus
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:44 pm
Post subject: Deception - what you wanted? |
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I was really kinda disappointed with MKD. It's worth noting that I have never played Mk4, and that I only played DA over a weekend with a mate - Deception was my first indepth trip into next generation Mortal Kombat. And I was not hugely impressed. The fighting styles/weapons were a great touch, as were the interactive backgrounds. But so many aspects were disappointing - back to the limited finishing moves of the Fatalities. The variety in Finishing Moves is what makes Mortal Kombat - I agree that Babalities were a tad too far, but the Friendships and Brutalities added a certain sweetness to your victory. And the fatalities in Deception were, by and large, poor. There was very little difference between different character's fatalities - a decapitation here and there, tearing off limbs - it was all the same. In the glory days of classic 2D MK, there was something distinctive about each fatality - barring a certain unoriginality between different characters having decapitating Fatalities (Kitana/Baraka spring to mind).
Another let down was the list of characters available. I'm never against new characters to a game and I realise that I was at a certain disadvantage having not played a game after MKT, as I didn't know who some of the characters were. But it seemed to be that the old cast of classic characters had been almost completely phased out - where was Sonya Blade, Kitana, Jax, Cyrax and/or Sektor, Kano, Johnny Cage or Kung Lao? More importantly, where the hell was Reptile? I know it was suppose to reflect the storyline mode in that pishpoor Pokemon-style Konquest mode, but for multi-playered games nostalgia was in full force when yuo discovered that your favourite classic characters had been removed and replaced by crap characters such as Bo Rai Cho or Horatu. Similarly I was raging that I was denied the chance to play as Shang Tsung. As for the Noob-Smoke arrangement - this is maybe something that could be expanded in later games, with more tag-team partnerships as it was a refreshing addition to the game (perhaps Sub-zero paired with Scorpion, and Sindel paired with Jade). What would have been nicer would have been the ability to play as either individual character in addition to the tag team player, as Noob Saibot and Smoke were two of my favourite characters from the previous games.
Finally, the Krypt and its unlockables. I'm sure it fascinated some people to have around 20 pieces of concept art regarding one of the stages, and I did enjoy some of the character storyboards. What I can't help feeling is that if some of that (maybe around 150 pieces of it?!) had been skipped, there would have been space for FMV endings to each character's journey - surely a better addition than some beautifully drawn stills and a caption? And on the subject of character journeys, please tell me I've overlooked some way of making the journey longer, like choosing a harder difficulty? 7 fights to get to Onaga? Bring me back the good old "Fight all the characters and some endurance matches before getting to the main Boss".
All I really want to say is roll on Armageddon.
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VainZiler
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:30 pm
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I agree with the character selection, but to understand there is a lot of stuff you need to know.
1. The characters: All of the ones you listed are NOT in the game, for they are DEAD. All killed by the deadly allaicne (HINT TO MKDA) As for Reptile, he is NOW the carrier of the Dragon King (Till AR)
2. THE FMV: It took the MK team around 3 months for the opeening movie ALONE. TO make 26 character ending like that would takes YEARS.
3. The Konquest: I dont get ho you can compare the MK koinquest to Pokemon, there is NO simluarity...
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-SubZero-
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:44 pm
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You need to read up more on the storyline dude. That critique isn't completely justified.
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Whyte_Lotus
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:04 am
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I've studied the storylines thoroughly as part of writing my MK: Final Battles concepts. I'm aware of what characters die, but there's complete inconsistency for the deaths of characters between games. Even the opening FMV was inconsistent - Rayden died, killed by Quan Chi and Shang Tsung, yeah? Enter the Dragon King, suddenly Rayden's up and about again. Then Rayden kills the three of them - and who do you get to unlock as a playable character? Rayden. Mortal Kombat trilogy - Johnny Cage was unable to die because of the merger of the realms. Sub-Zero was killed by Scorpion. Shao Kahn was killed in MK2 and came back in MK3. I know that some characters have to be cut, but in my opinion we were given some shiters from an otherwise excellent character pool.
I wasn't aware of the time behind the opening FMV - I withdraw my moan.
Konquest - In particular at the early stages where you run about doing things for people, and the dialogue - it just reminded me of playing Pokemon, where every James is standing around eager to dispense useless advice. As a game rated for mature audiences, the context of Konquest just seemed far too kiddy.
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-SubZero-
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:57 pm
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| Whyte_Lotus wrote: | I've studied the storylines thoroughly as part of writing my MK: Final Battles concepts. I'm aware of what characters die, but there's complete inconsistency for the deaths of characters between games. Even the opening FMV was inconsistent - Rayden died, killed by Quan Chi and Shang Tsung, yeah? Enter the Dragon King, suddenly Rayden's up and about again. Then Rayden kills the three of them - and who do you get to unlock as a playable character? Rayden. Mortal Kombat trilogy - Johnny Cage was unable to die because of the merger of the realms. Sub-Zero was killed by Scorpion. Shao Kahn was killed in MK2 and came back in MK3. I know that some characters have to be cut, but in my opinion we were given some shiters from an otherwise excellent character pool.
I wasn't aware of the time behind the opening FMV - I withdraw my moan.
Konquest - In particular at the early stages where you run about doing things for people, and the dialogue - it just reminded me of playing Pokemon, where every James is standing around eager to dispense useless advice. As a game rated for mature audiences, the context of Konquest just seemed far too kiddy. |
1) Raiden was defeated by Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, not killed. Additionally, he is a god, and can regenerate. Hence how he came back after he commited suicide. If you watch the FMV sequence, you can clearly see that he DID NOT kill Onaga. If you didn't get it visually, Shujinko even says that Raiden failed to kill Onaga. You also cannot tell for sure whether or not he killed Shang Tsung or Quan Chi.
2) Sbu-Zero V was killed by Scorpion, not Sub-Zero VI. Johnny Cage did die, but was resurrected by Raiden when he was needed.
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Whyte_Lotus
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:42 am
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I didn't mean Rayden killed Onaga - when I said the three of them, I referred to himself, Quan Chi and Shang Tsung. Given that they didn't appear in the game apart from as side missions in konquest - which was before Onaga had been resurrected in any case - it seems by the logic we apply to remove characters from the game that they did die. Maybe I don't know the story as well as I should, cos that Sub-Zero 5 and 6 thing really confused me.
I stand by my argument that the selection of characters we were given for deception was not the best by the long shot.
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VainZiler
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:52 am
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I will agree with you on that last part, because of how you just worded it
| Quote: | | selection of characters we were given for deception was not the best by the long shot. |
Because THey just through to many new characters in it, half assed them, and instaid of adding new fighting styles, they changed them over to some oif the new characters. (Scorpion's Pi Gua is now on Hotaru, but it does fit well on him, Cage's nunchaku is now Lui Kangs, which I wish Kang owuld have kept that Dragon sword from MK4)
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-SubZero-
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:08 pm
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| Whyte_Lotus wrote: | | cos that Sub-Zero 5 and 6 thing really confused me. |
Sub-Zero V was the one from the original Mortal Kombat, and Mythologies. He killed Hanzo Hasashi (Scorpion before death), and Scorpion then returned to murder him. He then became the demon Noob Saibot. In MKII, Sub-Zero returned, only it was the older Sub-Zero's younger brother, Sub-Zero IV. That is the Sub-Zero that currently remains in the games.
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Scorpion53
Firespawn of Hell
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:52 pm
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If you even read the history of the Shiai-Ryu, you would know that the original leader of the clan was a warrior named Takeda, not Hanzo, and he was not killed by Sub-Zero, like everybody thought. It was in fact Quan Chi, leader of the Brotherhood of Shadow, who killed him and his wife and kids. Scorpion was then given life by the Devil in order to avenge his family, but lost all memory of their existence because of the life he took. I do not know where you got the name Hanzo from, but if you look at Scorpion's bio for MKDA, you will find that Quan Chi actually reveals to Scorpion that he killed him in his past life after offering him life, which led them both to be transported to the Netherrealm when Scorpion grabs him. The facts you have provided are false unless you can prove it with some information in your next post, Sub-Zero. You of all people should know that we have a page on the history of the clans.
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-SubZero-
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:28 pm
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| Scorpion53 wrote: | | If you even read the history of the Shiai-Ryu, you would know that the original leader of the clan was a warrior named Takeda, not Hanzo, and he was not killed by Sub-Zero, like everybody thought. It was in fact Quan Chi, leader of the Brotherhood of Shadow, who killed him and his wife and kids. Scorpion was then given life by the Devil in order to avenge his family, but lost all memory of their existence because of the life he took. I do not know where you got the name Hanzo from, but if you look at Scorpion's bio for MKDA, you will find that Quan Chi actually reveals to Scorpion that he killed him in his past life after offering him life, which led them both to be transported to the Netherrealm when Scorpion grabs him. The facts you have provided are false unless you can prove it with some information in your next post, Sub-Zero. You of all people should know that we have a page on the history of the clans. |
First of all, I never said Hanzo was the original leader, I said he was Scorpion before death. Hanzo Hasashi was killed by Sub-Zero V. Quan Chi only killed Hanzo's Family and clan, not Hanzo. Yes, Scorpion was given that ability by Lucifer, but he did not lose his memory at all.
Scorpion's MKDA Bio:
| Quote: | | The ninja spectre Scorpion had assumed for many years that Sub-Zero killed his family and clan, only to later discover that the true murderer was the sorcerer Quan Chi. After revealing his treachery, Quan Chi then attempted to send Scorpion to the 5th plane of the Netherrealm. Thinking quickly, Scorpion grappled the sorcerer at the last moment and they were both transported to that forbidden realm. This turn of events boded well for Scorpion as his strength increased the longer he remained there. Quan Chi's powers, however, proved to be useless against him. |
Please point out where it says that Quan Chi killed Scorpion himself.
Oh, and by the way, since you have a problem reading things, check this simple version of Scorpion's history out.
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Scorpion53
Firespawn of Hell
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:52 pm
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First off, I was right when he lost all memory of his family because, if you remember, Lucifer said that if he returned he would lose all memory of his wife and child. Next, the leader's name was Takeda, not Hanzo, and to address your final issue, when Quan Chi revealed his treachery to Scorpion in Scorpion's MKDA bio is mentioning that Takeda, was killed by Quan Chi, not Sub-Zero and for the record, get your sources from somewhere else besides Wikipedia because my source that I received this information was not out of an encyclopedia, but an actual Mortal Kombat website. Next time, Sub-Zero, use information not only reliable, but from an actual MK website, you idiot. Rethink your facts because you're wrong and you need to admit it!
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VainZiler
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:25 am
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Actualy scorpion, u need to leanr how to read.
1. He stated himself that he NEVER said that Hanzo was the leader.
2. He never said that Takeda was killed by Sub-Zero V.
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-SubZero-
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:36 am
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You want to play? Let's play.
| Scorpion53 wrote: | | First off, I was right when he lost all memory of his family because, if you remember, Lucifer said that if he returned he would lose all memory of his wife and child. |
| Quote: | | However, he had to pay a dear price - if Hanzo accepted, he was never again to return to his former life. |
Show me exactly where that says he loses his memory in the deal. Show me. Or give me some sort of evidence (reliable) that he does, because what you "know" doesn't matter to me.
| Scorpion53 wrote: | | Next, the leader's name was Takeda, not Hanzo |
Learn how to read, because obviously you did not read my posts. I never said he was the leader of the Shirai-Ryu clan. I said he was Scorpion before death. And if you think that Scorpion was the original leader of the clan, then you know nothing.
| Scorpion53 wrote: | | and to address your final issue, when Quan Chi revealed his treachery to Scorpion in Scorpion's MKDA bio is mentioning that Takeda, was killed by Quan Chi, not Sub-Zero |
Once again, you need to learn how to read. Takeda died LONG before Scorpion even existed. He was killed by poison in his tea. And where does his bio mention anything about Takeda or the history of the clan?
And by the way, if you don't believe common knowledge, what you see in MKDA, and what is clearly presented to you, then play Mythologies.
| Scorpion53 wrote: | | and for the record, get your sources from somewhere else besides Wikipedia because my source that I received this information was not out of an encyclopedia, but an actual Mortal Kombat website. |
Guess where all of the MK articles on there came from? Someone's fanfic? No. Someone's imagination? No. They came from the games, comics, magazines, and Midway themselves. Don't tell me it's not reliable. Everything in there that is not clearly labeled as speculation, can be proven by one of the above mentioned references.
| Scorpion53 wrote: | | Next time, Sub-Zero, use information not only reliable, but from an actual MK website, you idiot. Rethink your facts because you're wrong and you need to admit it! |
Look, kid, I know you want to look all big and bad, and you don't like being wrong, but I've just destroyed your argument both times. Give up.
And by the way, don't tell me to provide evidence, when all you've done is say "I get my facts from a Mortal Kombat site." If you know you're right, then why don't you show me the site? Why don't you try to prove your point with something reliable?
Don't bring a BB gun to a tank fight.
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Scorpion53
Firespawn of Hell
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:40 am
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First off, I must apologize for losing my cool. It's not what you are supposed to do on posts. I did not read all the comics, or play all the games, like you know. I do know that you are trying to show yourself to the other users to make yourself feel better about yourself because you don't feel right. Next, I want to address the issue on Scorpion, which is that I do have information from a paper I wrote years ago that proves my point. I will gladly show it to you when you are ready to see it, but to me, it seems that you need a little time to cool off from this first round of debate.
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Undefeated with Mileena
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-SubZero-
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:47 am
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Dude, what are you talking about? Seriously. Why did you even start this? Because I explained something to a confused board member?
Just because you wrote a paper doesn't mean anything. I could write a paper about how Superman and I are best friends. Is that neccessarily true? No. I don't want a paper. I want your source of information.
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