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onretilom
MATT THE MANIAC
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:35 am
Post subject: Most broken character of all time!! |
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I pick Noob Saibot from MKT because he has an easy infinite, is a beast against computers, and all his specials that will let him have a free hit.
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DreemerNJ
TMK Temple Monk
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:25 am
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Every move Noob has sets up an infinite. Him and Rain are both incredibly broken.
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onretilom
MATT THE MANIAC
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:25 pm
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Yeah, but I find Noob's infinites to be easier.
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Amphibious
The Shadowy Usurper
Joined: 23 Jul 2002
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:41 pm
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Noob is much worse than Rain. In MKT, they made it so Rain could not constantly use his lightening bolt to project his opponent into the air, you can only do it once, before they get up and move, as opposed to 5-6-7 times in a row, etc.
Noob-Saibot's cloud move is just too much. The fact that it also disables your ability to block, on top of making it so you can't hit him, is rediculous. Noob = broken.
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DreemerNJ
TMK Temple Monk
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:22 pm
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The lightning was never a very powerful part of Rain because it is almost always blockable since they have to be on the ground to get hit by it, its basically only for when they are doing projectiles.
The most ridiculous and broken part of Rain is his roundhouse. It is faster than a normal roundhouse, has no extra button hits necessary to trigger it, and landing it leads to the infinite which is just HP, roundhouse, forever. Also, you can abuse the rain ball in the corner to keep people frozen in air. Good time eater.
Noob is definately broken, but Rain is very close to his level of brokenness.
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Amphibious
The Shadowy Usurper
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:05 am
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But Rain's moves don't have the potential for as much damage. For example, I often do this combo with Rain to be cheap:
-Telekenetic Rain Ball (to bring them above my character)
-Super Roundhouse Kick (to hurl them to the other end of the screen)
-Uppercut (once they come onto the other end of the screen)
However, this combination of his special moves really doesn't do that much damage. Each move performed after his special moves does less and less. So even though it's pretty cheap, it does less than half of the damage of Noob Saibot if he does the following:
-Smoke projectile (making your opponent unable to block or fight)
-Run up to them
-Uppercut
-Run up to them
-Uppercut
-Repeat, repeat, repeat
You just can't beat that ultimate cheapness offered only with Noob Saibot.
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EWAShock
TMK Sage
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:02 pm
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I consider them to be pretty even, the only thing that sets Rain back is how you perform his lightening. Doing back back is more obvious and taxing on your momentum in a match than D-F. Both characters can start their infinites off just about anything, including a simple combo. The lightening bolt is as fast vertically as the Disabler is horizontally, so essentially you have the same block reaction potentional for both moves, I see this as equal. The teleport is a weak starter for Noobs infs, but it is the key to continuing them, as it requires timing to perform additional ones in combos. Rain's RH is the key to his infs, you need to stick one hit inbetween each usage in order to continue his infinite. If they both had a limit to their infinite keys, they wouldn't be bad at all. Rain's move also have significant recovery to them, allowing you to punish him if he misses. Noob's Clone and Rain's Rainball are about the same threat level, but Rain has a lot more oppurtunity to continue with an infinite, Noob's Clone's throw path can be unpredictable at time, however the infinite you can start off it is broken, and takes only 3 volleys for 100%. Noob's throw does almost as much damage as an uppercut, and he moves faster than everyone else.
Using Noob as the most broken character in the game, at 100%, Rain is about 99%, MKII Kung Lao is 98%, Kabal is about 95%, Human Smoke 94%, and the drop off after that brings you to about 80% trough the rest of the top tier, a few characters here and there make some jumps down, all the way down to Mileena and Sheeva etc, who are not broken at all.
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Amphibious
The Shadowy Usurper
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:13 am
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Kitana and Liu Kang in MKII are in the high 90% range if you ask me. Kitana because her combos are rediculous, and Kang because his fireblast can be used on the ground or in the air, and that prevents you from doing any jumping against him as well as a lot of ground moves.
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DreemerNJ
TMK Temple Monk
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:59 am
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| Amphibious wrote: |
-Telekenetic Rain Ball (to bring them above my character)
-Super Roundhouse Kick (to hurl them to the other end of the screen)
-Uppercut (once they come onto the other end of the screen)
However, this combination of his special moves really doesn't do that much damage. |
So, don't do that simple combo any more when you can easily do much more damaging ones. That's like getting a disabler and then only landing a teleport slam to HK or something.
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MoonEye821
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:29 pm
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 I like how they are. They where always supposed to be, “gifted,” characters. As some would say, "better," than the rest; like boss characters. I don't argue with how Midway made their game here. Some characters are just supposed to be this way. I believe all characters have the ability to win if you know how to use them. All of everyone's moves are blockable or avoidable. I have always felt that if my opponent was stupid enough to not know how to block or how to jump out of the way in time that my opponent deserves to have the special moves used against him or herself again, and again, and again. Midway obviously agrees with me on this point otherwise they wouldn't have made these characters the way they are.
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MiguelSix
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:40 am
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 Can someone kindly explain to me what it means to be a "broken character?"
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DreemerNJ
TMK Temple Monk
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:44 am
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| MoonEye821 wrote: | | ... I have always felt that if my opponent was stupid enough to not know how to block or how to jump out of the way in time that my opponent deserves to have the special moves used against him or herself again, and again, and again... |
So if anyone ever gets hit with a special move its because they are stupid?
EDIT: A broken character is a character that is vastly overpowered compared to other characters. Noob Saibot can move faster than anyone else, his projectile has almost no startup frames, which means its easier to get someone with that than with other projectiles, and every move he does can lead to a simple infinite, which isn't so for most characters.
The same goes with Rain. The lightning has very few startup frames, and the roundhouse is faster than a normal roundhouse and leads to a simple infinite.
When you are facing Scorpion and he gets any special move on you, there's a very low maximum amount of damage he can get. Then other characters like Human Smoke can get considerably more damage from landing certain special moves or combos.
And then there are Rain and Noob who can get 100% from pretty much any of their moves. That is broken and the failure of MKT to become a serious high level game can directly be linked to how bad Noob and Rain are.
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MiguelSix
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:01 am
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Thanks for the explanation, Dreemer.
I don't think that MoonEye was trying to say that anyone getting hit by a special move is stupid (at least I hope he wasn't). I think his point was that people say "oh he's too powerful" to hide that they just are not as good as they think they are. But, after reading your explanation on what a broken character is, I would say that any complaints made about Rain or Noob are legitimate.
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MoonEye821
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:54 am
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I never said they didn’t have and edge and an advantage. You’re right, they do. But that is part of MK and always has been both storyline wise and game-play wise. Think of them as boss characters. Then it makes more sense. They are how they are supposed to be. They are supposed to have and edge like Shao Kahn and Motaro. Even Goro had a clear and heavy edge over everyone in MK1. That is part of the MK philosophy. If you don’t like having and edge, don’t pick the characters. It’s like playing through the game as Shao Kahn. You know you’re going to win. You know everyone else will loose to you. That’s the fun of playing as Shao Kahn. Now, if you want to limit yourself to less of an edge, then you pick someone like Sub-Zero Un-Masked or Robotic Smoke. Then you can lower your edge even more by picking more direct move characters like Liu Kang and Johnny Cage. What I’m saying is that the characters are not and never where made to be equal. They are the way they are supposed to be, some with more an edge than others. If you don’t like the edge pick someone with less and edge. Like I said, look at Rain and Noob Saibot as boss characters and this makes much more sense. Also, most MK games don’t have bosses selectable from the start. MKT does, and should. If you don’t want the edge, don’t pick a character with one. As far as fighting them, well, think of them as a wild card boss that could appear, drawn from the deck, at any stage in the game. To quote the words of Raiden, “Goro can be killed. Shang Tsung's power can be destroyed by mortal men and women. You can overcome any obstacle, no matter how bizarre their powers may seem. Only one thing can defeat you... Your own fear.” Ed and John hold this true philosophy to heart. That is why they made their character Noob Saibot so incredibly powerful. He is a boss character that can randomly generate on the tower like everyone else; as he should be. And they decided to do the same with Rain. Anything done in MKT, and any MK truly, have be either blocked or dodged. By that respect, anything is fair. You have to overcome your fears and train harder to win against characters with more an edge. But, “If it bleeds we can kill it.” You hit them, they loose health. They can die. This is fair. In short, this is the philosophy: Anything can be blocked or dodged in MKT and all MK games and everyone bleeds and can die so everything’s fair and anything goes. I know many of you will argue with me for days and nights about this. But this is the truth, and the way of Mortal Kombat; so I go with it.
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DreemerNJ
TMK Temple Monk
Joined: 11 Feb 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:09 pm
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You can tell as they progressed through the MK games that, up until MKT, the goal was to have a balanced game. Unforunately they threw out that idea in MKT with Noob, Rain and the bosses.
The goal of the game was not to reflect how some characters have more power than others. Thats why as they released revisions of MK, characters that were extremely powerful became more limited. Characters that were towards the bottom were often improved.
That's why UMK3 is the only MK game that can be played seriously at a high level.
Its a shame. MKT could have been the best. They did release mutliple revisions with the goal of making its gameplay more like UMK3, but then they dropped the ball on the characters. Well, except for N64. That's just a mess.
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